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Jennie King's avatar

I had a doctor prescribe me a medication that I am afraid to take. I'm pretty prone to side effects, and there are some other risks that I am extremely concerned about. Instead of asking questions, she sent me to take an expensive test as a dare to prove her right. I saw the judgment and the annoyance at being a bother to her. Now I am without a primary doctor, and I know I need to find a new one, but I hate this medical system so much. It's so hard to find someone who will actually work with you. Luckily, I have a good OB/GYN who is helping me bridge the gap for now.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

You basically got punished for expressing concerns and protecting your bodily autonomy. I’ve definitely felt the urge to do that, too. And I’m sure I have also done it. It’s a great lesson for all of us. Thank you for sharing.

Heidi Jon Schmidt's avatar

My doctor always acted as if I was lying and drug seeking (I’m a professional woman in my 60’s who was caregiver to a husband with dementia for years). Last year he suddenly showed me respect, and asked me to consider losing weight. I lost 30 pounds without meds over this year and he refused to acknowledge it. I wrote him about that and he didn’t reply. I’m noncompliant because I don’t trust him. I can’t bring myself to trust people who don’t trust me.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Great point about trust. We just can't keep assuming we are entitled to patients' trust. It's earned and maintained. You know, much like our medical license!

M. Stankovich, MD, MSW's avatar

It's ironic that you raise this issue because I'm in the middle of an extraordinarily painful process of not passing a kidney stone that is too large to pass since this past Thursday. I suspected the waves of pain, etc. was a kidney stone, so I went to Urgent Care, didn't disclose that I was a doctor, presented my symptoms to the doctor, who finally told me he didn't believe it was a kidney stone, but a "muscular stress," and in any case could not prescribe a narcotic (which I never asked for!) pursuant to the "recommendations of the American Sports Medicine Institute," blah, blah, blah. WHAT? I felt he was thinking I was drug seeking and trying to get rid of me with an injection of toradol.

I left and was home, literally, five minutes when he phoned me to say my creatinine was very high and my EFGR was very low, and with the toradol injection, he feared I could experience renal failure. He said I should immediately go to the ER. Wow. Long story short, after 13-hours sitting & waiting in the ER, I was admitted at 3:45 am Saturday morning; had a CT scan that showed the very large stone; had surgery to place a stent; and was discharged Sunday morning with a prescription for oxycodone because the pain basically bends me in half, despite any "recommendation" of the American Sports Medicine Institute. I also received a message address to "Dr Stankovich" from the Urgent Care doc apologizing.

For me, this was a real lesson in actually listening to patients and pre-judgment. As a physician who deals exclusively with parolees, who when I lecture them specifically about issues of regaining trust in significant relationships in their lives destroyed by their use of alcohol and drugs, the 1st question I ask is, how important was telling the truth in prison? 100% of my patients say "unimportant." Now, the task is to to be honest when their instinct is to lie to "solve" the problem. "How will I know you are being honest with me? All I ask now is your commitment to work on this issue WITH ME!" And it is such an extraordinary process to witness & share. Thank you, Zed, for raising this issue!

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

I’m so sorry you went through this! Kidney stones are awful enough on their own, but there is something especially painful about feeling implicitly distrusted while actively suffering. The contrast (no pun intended) between being treated as potentially “drug-seeking” and then discovering you were genuinely in danger of renal failure is such a powerful example of how suspicion can distort clinical care.

And I was especially moved by what you shared about your work with parolees. The answer they gave about honesty in prison is incredibly profound. “People adapt to systems” is exactly the heart of what I was trying to get at in the essay. Your work sounds deeply humane, psychologically insightful, and honestly full of what I imagine must be fascinating and hard-earned stories about trust, survival, and rebuilding relationships.

Thank you so much for sharing this reflection with me. I really hope your recovery goes smoothly from here!

Nancy E. Holroyd, RN's avatar

Sadly, I have seen too many doctors that are quick to stick labels on patients. Consequently, I do not trust doctors. I have a well visit coming up in three weeks and want to tell my doctor I want off of a drug she prescribed because of side effects.

I suspect I'll suck it up and be truthful but I just don't know.

Sadly, this is a chronic issue in our country.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Coming from an RN who says "I don't trust doctors" itself...says a lot!!

Graham Morgan's avatar

I live in Scotland and am treated compulsorily for my mental illness. I routinely lie about my health to the people giving me my depot. Not because I dislike them but we have never had a chance to build a trusting relationship. To them I am always fine and I always nod when they tell me to call if I need to, knowing I never will. Many of my peers also expect professionals to know they hide the truth, so many reasons; awkwardness, embarrassment, pain of speaking, feeling a nuisance, fearing dismissal. They do this even when they are desperate and close to death. I don't know the solution. Sometimes I think my carers should read my books or walk the dog with me. At least know the name of my partner and her children. Loved reading your book. Reminds me that there are good people around.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Thank you so much for reading Consented. I would absolutely love it if you would give it an Amazon or Goodread review. This will help bring it to more readers.

What you said about saying "fine" and nodding to people who you don't trust, it reminds me of what people do to arbitrary numbers on the pain scale. Both examples speak to what happens when we forget to regard each other as fellow humans.

Jane's avatar

Had a looong discussion with my physical therapist abt how bad I think “the pain scale” is. Let me express how my pain feels, my way. If you need to quantify as a number for your notes, go ahead - but I will describe it in words.

Ellen Barry's avatar

A technique which has worked for me when I had to explain a legal concept was to ask my client to tell me in his own words what he understood from what I had just told him. I was always astonished at how little he retained or how poorly he processed the information. It is worthwhile to have a non confrontational conversation about difficult subjects, whether the issue is analytic intelligence or avoidance and distrust. Engaging my clients in this way empowered them to make hard decisions later.

Aussie Med Student's avatar

The trick to the "repeat back" strategy is to say it's to check that you've explained properly... otherwise people are inclined to think you think they're stupid if you think they might not understand. I always loathe being asked to teach back because I know it's because they think I haven't understood properly. But phrasing it as "to check that I've explained properly" helps put the responsibility for the patient's comprehension on the doctor.

Debra Lundgren's avatar

I’ve regularly downplayed symptoms, especially pain, because I don’t want to be treated as though I am a hypochondriac. I’m shocked at how often I’ve had to actually resist drs to get necessary treatment for things such as hypertension. If I’m not believed in the light of clear readings in office and at home, why would I think I’ll be believed for more nebulous things such as pain?

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Why, indeed. When we don't have the trust of patients in small things, why would they trust us in larger issues?

MaryAnn McKibben Dana's avatar

"After all, the so-called “standard of care” is often either a statistical average or a long-standing tradition. And averages, by definition, imply variation. Some people need more. Some need less. That’s how averages work."

I can't wait to have you on "Off Script" next week, doc! We can do so much better than "normal," eh? Thanks for upholding dignity and difference.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

You know what! As I was writing it I totally thought of your book Better Than Normal. Can’t wait for our conversation!

Cassiel's avatar

I'm also on a medication right now which is an injection, and I read up about it a great deal in advance before asking my doctor about it (because using it for my condition is currently off-label, but has shown promise in early studies).

I specifically chose which doctor I asked to prescribe it, because I knew she already treats patients with my condition and is open-minded about off-label use of medications. I went in with a printout of a study where it was used for my condition, all prepared to argue my case, and her eyes lit up when I handed it to her and she immediately said "can I keep this?" so I knew we were going to be okay!

She's been fantastic about it, listens to all my updates on how it's going without being judgemental, and always encourages me to trust my body in how it responds.

As a result, I feel comfortable talking to her about my dose (currently halfway between two of the "standard" dose options) and my timing for taking it (it wears off a few days earlier than the "official" timing that everyone is told to follow, and I always notice when it does, so I take it more often than is standard).

She's also 100% okay with the fact that my partner and I are both on it (we both have the same condition) and that we use a single prescription for both of us (it uses disposable one-off needles for each injection, so it's not like we're sharing needles or anything!).

If she wasn't so understanding and trusting of us, we literally would not be able to take this medication, as the cost would be waaaaay too much for us if we each had to buy it separately.

But this medication has helped us both *so* much in the last 9 months we've been on it. There are literally no approved medications for our condition in our country, so having access to something that helps like this and having our doctor be so understanding about how we take it is a life-saver.

(It's also not the only medication we take off-label, thanks to her and two other doctors who are trusting and understanding. Our country is a lot stricter than the USA about approving medications, so I'm really grateful to have found doctors who keep up with the research and listen to patients. It was NOT easy to find them, and it was 100% because I regularly read local patient groups on FB and similar, to get the actual opinions of other people who have our conditions. Unfortunately I have had a lot of awful experiences with doctors thinking I'm lying too, but I wanted to share a positive story for a change!)

Claudia's avatar

I was reading the article and thought, no, I haven't lied to my doctors about medicines .... and then I remembered the braces.

The braces.

So, now I'm going to tell you about the braces. I got (dental) braces quite late, I think I must have been 15, 16 or 17 or thereabouts. The doctor was clearly used to much younger patients, so he had an utterly smarmy and patronising manner. Which got my back up every time I had to go for an appointment.

I got a number of different types of braces during the course of treatment and one type was one which involved wearing an external thing, which I absolutely absolutely hated. The doctor told me that I had to wear the thing for 18 hours a day. No way was I going to school wearing that thing!! (I might have not been so upset about that contraption if I had been younger but not at this age!). I manipulated the thing in such a way that it was tighter and then only wore it during the night. It was more painful but it was definitely preferable to wearing that damn thing outside the house. Prior to any control appointment I readjusted those braces into the same position the doctor had set them but on one occasion I forgot and he found out.

He then insisted on giving my mother a telling off. (As if she had known anything!) I went home and carried on exactly as I had before. A while later I got a different style of braces.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

OMG that's literally me right now. Every time I go to the orthodontist, he acts skeptical about how much I wear my wires. If I say "I wear it 95% of the day" he would say "well make it 100%." Come on. Can we be human here?

Sienna.'s avatar
4dEdited

Wow. This was relieving to me to read. The assumptions are scary to face as a patient to doctors. I’ve received my fair share of ridiculous assumptions and projections from er docs, primary care and urgent care. They don’t have great track records. And safe to say I’ve lost trust in the system.

A long time ago I got a steam burn to a new tattoo. I didn’t want it to heal poorly and scar. The story behind the burn was really silly because I did something pretty dumb in retrospect, so I was nervous to share how it happened. I decided to go to urgent care so they could tell me how to best care for it so it wouldn’t scar.

The doctor took one look at me, with the most offensive incredulous look, scribbled something down and left. The assistant came in to read the aftercare. He suggested I take silver. Great! (The silver worked and it healed without scarring).

And then the assistant choked on his words.

“He also prescribed you…….? Why did he prescribe you that?”

I don’t remember the name now, but it was one of those super heavy duty pain medication drugs that people get addicted to.

Now they had asked me the pain level. I told them there was no pain at all, I just wanted it to heal correctly. This doctor made the most heinous disgusting assumption that in hindsight I wish I would’ve reported him for.

To add context, we were of different races and it was a highly racist city we lived in.

I went to go pick up the silver at the pharmacy. I refused the pain medication at the window. I don’t even take aspirin.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Wow there is so much here in this example! Racial disparity, the jarring assumption of drug-seeking even when you repeated you were not in pain, and the stark refusal to listen...

Sienna.'s avatar
3dEdited

Absolutely. There are really weird real life examples out there that make life stranger than fiction. I saw a comment here about the doctor feeling sad about the response towards allopathic medicine, but it’s created from the system itself.

I could write a short book of all the crazy experiences I’ve had with the doctors who I initially trusted with my care. It sucks. I had a panic attack in the er once because I was scared to be there alone there. It was busy, loud, and I was there because I couldn’t breathe. Because of my bad experiences at the er, I used to get sooo nervous when I had to be seen. This doctor was nuts. In a loud hyper, shrieking voice while glaring at me hyperventilating, out of no where asked if I dropped out of highschool. In the middle of a panic attack within the first five minutes of her coming into the room. The two interns who followed her in stared at me with smirks. I was well out of typical college age and highschool age mind you, and it showed that on my chart. I also graduated highschool….on time! I have no clue why that question would ever need to come out with a patient, and less so why it’s important to ask during a panic attack. Needless to say I did not receive any help for my condition but after that my blood pressure was through the roof so they made me stay until it came back down. There are true oddities out there. And it really shouldn’t be that way.

Hortense60's avatar

I was taking a benzo medication during a period in my life when my nervous system was seriously jangled. It was a rescue med, not a daily pill, so I got less than two dozen pills at a time. During a bad meltdown, my shaking hands fumbled my open pill bottle into the sink. I lost most of the tiny pills down the drain. So, I had to message my doctor to ask for more of a schedule 4 controlled substance. Problem. Fortunately, she trusted me and approved a refill. But she did suggest that I transfer the pills to another, fumble-proof container.

As for other early refill issues: insurance often balks at such requests, at least with Medicare.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

yup insurance as an imposition is something I didn't get to write about this this newsletter but certainly in my book!

Shawna Ford's avatar

I am in a child free home and have my pills in regular caps as I cannot open the child safe caps without sending the contents flying around the room.

I keep spare caps in case the wrong caps are provided.

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Another very human scenario.

Andrew Lenhardt, MD's avatar

when in doubt, believe the patient. i learned many years ago to ask a patient something like “How many times did you miss your medication over the past month?” rather than “Are you taking your medication?” Promotes an honest answer.

Janeen Herskovitz's avatar

I absolutely cannot wait to read your book. I’m a psychotherapist and can relate to that dreaded word “non-compliance” except we call it “resistant”. I hate those descriptors. They’re not only unkind, they’re inaccurate!

Zed Zha, MD (she/her)'s avatar

Goodness! I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about Consented! We might have to have a few cocktails comparing notes. 😅

Jolie Moore's avatar

What I've found fascinating is that doctors who prescribe drugs even after I refuse. The number of times CVS has called me to pick up a prescription I didn't want is too often. These are, in my opinion, optional where the side effects exceed the minimal possible benefit.

For example, I changed PCPs after she said she thought everyone in LA should be taking antidepressants and prescribed them when what I really needed was HRT for my perimenopause symptoms....

Up Here in the Clouds's avatar

My mom was once labeled an alcoholic in the ER when she went in for heart problems. All she said was she enjoyed a glass of wine with dinner. My dad was an alcoholic, so I lived the difference. The doctor was getting ready to send her home when she crashed in the ER. She was admitted, needed a pacemaker, crashed again, had to this time be resuscitated, then rushed into surgery for a temporary pacemaker until the could install the permanent one the next day. Because of the "alcoholic" label she was denied almost all pain meds except aspirin or Tylenol, and was told to "suck it up". The cardiologist the next day thankfully reversed it and removed it, and told her she absolutely deserved two glasses of wine with dinner when she was recovered.

As for me, I had a pediatrician in the 1970s who never listened to his patients, or their parents, followed by a PCP who would only follow up on your most pressing issue. Followed by another one who said I was healthy enough, no matter my complaint, or just lose weight, it will clear up. Yes, I'm overweight, and I've tried to lose weight, and it never quite seemed to help. Honestly, I stopped going to doctors unless I had to. Why bother? No one listens to me. I'm now facing an issue discovered by in a MRI ordered by my eye doctor and need a new PCP. I'm terrified to call tomorrow the one recommended, because no matter how much her reviews and comments say she is kind, and listens, and works with you, fifty some years of medical interactions have taught me to expect the opposite.